I promised you my second post would be on gun control. I’m certain I don’t have to explain why this is on my mind. From the get-go, let me just say that I know this topic gets emotionally charged quickly. Let’s please stay civil.
Now, I am all for hunters being able to hunt. I am all for trap shooters being able to shoot clay pigeons. I don’t “get” it, even after Simon let me try his gun. I’ll never really understand hunting, but that’s because I’m way too sappy when it comes to animals, and Danny and I both recognize it. Remember when I said I ‘could get a cat’ and become a cat lady? Well, since then Danny and I started adding pets for The Kid. Said Kid now has 3 dogs and 5 cats to go along with Gail VI. It was 3 dogs and 3 cats until we found 2 strays in the garage, but oh well – we love the animals, and they unconditionally love us. So I can’t shoot bambi. And I’m not saying just because I can’t, no one else should.
By the way, that wasn’t the first time I held a gun (I let Simon think so because he was being all protectory and stuff). A friend traveling to visit another friend stopped for the night at my place and said, “ooo, look at this!” Admittedly the not-Simon guy was certainly using his gun as an indicator of his manhood (and that’s mocking that particular person, not gun owners in general) – but it didn’t make me feel safe to have it in my home that night. It scared the crap out of me for two reasons: that guy has a serious anger issue, and he drank ¾ of my bottle of Captain Morgan’s Private Stock. Admittedly, I wasn’t too happy about that last part whether or not he had a gun.
But I digress.
In my family, both of my brothers have guns. Hogan’s dad and my SIL just recently went to a beautiful farm in Western PA and shot traps. Yay. Good for them! Glad they enjoyed it. I don’t expect them to like to Twitter or to blog (good thing since I’m the only one who followed Dad’s footsteps and went left instead of right. This way I get to be totally honest with my peeps out here). They have their fun their way, I have my fun my way. It’s part of, you know, pursuing happiness.
But here are the things: they know how to use them, and they aren’t semi-automatics or automatics. They’re sport guns for sport, and in both cases, a hand gun for protection.
Why don’t we require skill-based licensing for owning a gun? That’s not rhetorical, I simply don’t understand, and I don’t understand why anyone would think it’s dandy to have people running around with guns when they don’t know how to use them.
Why is it people with mental illness can legally buy and own a gun?
But mostly, why is it when I say I’d like to talk about the gun laws, I get shouted down and told Second Amendment! Second Amendment! Second Amendment! Why is the assumption that I want all guns banned instantly?
This happened with the AZ incident. I’m sure if you have a FB account you saw the status update that said
To everyone who is calling for stricter gun laws in light of the tragedy in Tucson, may I offer this little tidbit: If guns kill people, then pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat. Remember: Hold the person accountable for their actions, not the means they chose to utilize!!! Repost if you agree gun control won’t stop the criminals, just stops the good people from having guns.
I replied to one poster that I respectfully disagreed, and that while I don’t think we should ban all guns, if the shooter had been armed with a knife instead of a gun, it’s likely there wouldn’t be 6 dead and 13 injured – he would have been stopped before more than one or two people got stabbed.
Enter my being yelled at. Exit my part of the conversation. I don’t like being told I’m having a knee-jerk reaction (especially when I’ve held these views for at least 7 years). Most interestingly, the woman who yelled at me said we need to look at how this man slipped through the cracks of the mental health-care system.
Earlier this week she posted that she is glad the House voted to repeal the Health-care bill. You can’t have it both ways. If we’re going to help the disenfranchised mentally ill, you have to understand – they are unlikely to be holding down jobs that give them benefits, they don’t necessarily have family money, and the insurance coverage they might get from a possible spouse maxes out. In some cases, it doesn’t take long for them to lose what they might have through those avenues. Sorry – that’s a tangent that we need to keep for a different day, but now you know what my next topic will be 
So, my friends on the left – why do you think guns should be harder to get and keep? How do you propose we make it safer for everyone, even those of us who do not care to own a gun, and at times feel as if we’re being told we MUST (yeah, 7 years ago again)?
My friends on the right – why is there resistance to outlawing certain types of guns? Why is there resistance to having gun owners proving their ability to shoot accurately? Why don’t we require gun owners to carry insurance similar to what car owners have to carry?
Please – discuss!
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Agreed. We need to break through the argument that gun control means banning all guns. We have different levels of controls on drugs, why would this not work for guns? Why can we not agree that a magazine clip of 30 bullets is designed the make the weapon more deadly?
To quote your former co-worker Toby Zeigler:
“I do know that if you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you’ll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year; they had 112. You think it’s because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it’s because those guys have gun control laws?”
My only resistance has nothing to do with the Second Amendment. In President Bartlet’s words, “Can’t we all just agree it is a stupid ass amendment?” I don’t think the founders imagined a world with semi automatics for normal citizens.
Let me share an experience with everyone. I have attended one gun show in my entire life. That experience is what has helped to shape my gun views. It wasn’t the “normal people” (and I hesitate to use that term, but it is the only one that seems to fit) in their camouflage and hunting gear that bothered me. They were all looking at their rifles and smaller handguns to use either for hunting or protection, respectively. It was the “abnormal people,” decked out in all black, long trench coats and walking by themselves that bothered me. Because they weren’t looking at the rifles and hand guns. They were looking at the semi automatics and other guns that I didn’t even know existed. And they could buy these guns by filling out one small piece of paper and showing their photo ID.
I believe that we have to do something to make it harder for people to buy guns, and not just the semi automatic weapons, but EVERY gun. From the guy who likes to shoot deer to the guy who just wants to feel protected. There is nothing wrong with a mandatory waiting period that would allow time for background checks. Also, we must figure out a way to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental illnesses. But that is a topic for another day.
I grew up in a military family in a military town. My grandfather grew up on a ranch, then joined the marines. When he came home, he joined the Air Force. My mom and dad both retired from the Air Force. My aunt retired from the army. They never spouted off about second amendment, neither did any of the old guys in the military with them. Only young guys, guys who did their 3 and out, guys who never were in. They said 1)most people are idiots. They have no idea what a gun is, what it is for, why we have them 2) most people are idiots. You trust them with a car, and look what they do. Why are we giving them guns? 3)most people are idiots. If they get a gun, they shouldn’t be able to get bullets so easy. If we check out a gun for the rifle range, we also have to check out bullets, and return what we don’t use. If we don’t, we get in trouble 4) the only reason to have a handgun is to kill people. That is it. If you get a hand gun, that means you are planning on killing someone. Be sure you are prepared for that if you ever decide to get one (my grandfather. Rancher, Marine, Air Force, and Cop).
Before I was allowed to learn to shoot, I had to learn all about the gun. Then my dad took a doll, filled it with tomatoes and shot it. He told me “that is what guns do to people. If you want to pick up a gun, you need to understand what it can do to a living creature. You NEVER point it at anything unless you want that to happen to it. Person, animal, ANYTHING.” When I joined JROTC rifle team in high school, most of the kids were like “hehe, we get to shoot stuff, cool”. They had no understanding of guns at all. And most of them had guns at home! And more than one got kicked off the team because they pointed the gun at something other than the target.
Along with gun control, we need gun understanding. We need gun responsibility. We need gun consequences. Until we have those, people will always do stupid things, say stupid things, react with their knee jerk emotions. Because really, emotions come when understanding fails.
The entire gun-control issue needs to get back to some basic ideas and answer some basic questions:
Why do we want to control gun access? Public safety? Stop criminals from buying guns? Other?
So far, the laws have focused on making it harder for criminals to legally buy guns. But, that does not stop possibly unbalanced or insane people who happen to have no criminal record. With the killing power of guns comes great responsibility. Personally as a Green, I have no problem with sane, law-abiding citizens owning guns. However, we need to work to stop guns from falling into the wrong hands, and being available on the black market.
The good news is that violent crime has been falling steadily in the US for the past 20+ years. The bad news is that spasms of shootings can and will happen.
Here are some ideas to combat gun related violence and crime:
1. Comprehensive background check and sanity check before buying a gun.
2. Close the damn gunshow loophole. Now.
3. Target violent criminals and organized crime that uses guns in their criminal activity.
You want a gun? Great. You want to exercise your 2nd amendment rights (whatever that non-sensical amendment means)? Peachy. Prove you can handle the responsibility.
Everyone who has commented so far makes excellent points I agree with. There is simply no need for semiautomatic weapons in the public hands. We need better background checks, better training (should be mandatory) and much fewer options in available weaponry.
Unfortunately, because criminals have guns (and will find a way to get them regardless), many people feel the need to defend themselves, although statistics show that arming innocent citizens doesn’t reduce murder rates. The US has loose gun control and the highest (or close to it) rate of gun death in the world. Don’t have the figures in front of me but I’ve seen them.
I’ve spoken to pro-gun folks who truly believe the 2nd Amendment gives them the right to bear arms in case they ever need to overthrow the government. Not saying all pro- gun folks feel that way, but some do. And they are loud about it and lobby hard to keep their militia-like arsenals. There’s just no place for that.
I’d prefer to see no guns in the hands of the public, but that ship has sailed. No way to get back all those guns now. But much stricter laws for getting guns, especially the really vicious ones, and much stricter penalties for misuse or illegal possession are necessary.
I was once going to attend a public festival that had stated no guns allowed. Pro-gun advocates petitoned the city and forced the festival to allow guns. Who needs a gun at a crowded family event? As one gun owner himself said, “I have a fishing license but don’t take my rod to the movies, and even though I have a gun to the festival.” If more gun owners felt that way, I’d feel safer. But the folks proud to brandish their weapons at that festival convinced me to stay home that day.
It’s an intimidation factor, I suppose, but going on the premise of there not being a complete ban on guns, we need more moderate voices, and we need them to speak above the shouting. And we definitely don’t need to make it so easy for just anyone to get automatic weapons or the deadliest ammo.
He may be a comedian, but he’s smart, so I’ll close by quoting Eddie Izzard, who challenged the NRA’s stance by saying, “Guns don’t kill people – but I think the gun helps.”
(Just realized I can’t scroll back to edit on an iPad, so apologies for any typos.)
Once I posted my comment I caught a typo I must fix or what I wrote will make no sense. The moderate gun owner said, “just because I have a gun license doesn’t mean I’m taking my gun to the festival.” Sensible fellow.
My personal question is how far do you go to ban people with mental illness and how to you enforce that? I am bipolar and have been hospitalized previously for it. I am very balanced currently and have been for years, yet if I took a personality test akin to the ones required for many jobs (I’ve heard this test thrown out there for the “sanity check”) and I answered it honestly, I would not pass. I know, because I was not hired due to failing said test. I feel they are extremely biased against specific mental illnesses. Now, if you look at my medical records, my doctors all feel I am an intelligent, strong individual with the desire to maintain mental stability and so on. I know I personally trust myself with any gun over many people that would be passed as “sane”. Do I automatically fall on some national registry (which I feel is an infringement on my rights) because I have been hospitalized in my past? What about people that have not been diagnosed in any way, are able to lie on various “sanity” tests, and yet are clearly suffering from various delusions and/or mental illnesses? I just don’t feel it’s a factor that can fairly be used to determine my rights at this moment in history.
Kat, you make such an important point – and an important topic for discussion. Mental illness is not a crime; it is a disease that needs treatment and is woefully misunderstood. People with mental illness should not be stigmatized. Only those who prove truly incapable of functioning in society (which is rare, and not limited to people to mental illness) should be restricted from anything. And even then, only potentially dangerous things, like driving or owning a gun. But many, like you, are managing their illness. That’s a reason to applaud, not judge.
Kat, I agree some arbitrary line in the sand isn’t going to fix this problem, but I need to tell you about my exhusband.
He is a paranoid schizophrenic who has threatened to kill me within days of his not taking his medicines. When he’s on them, he says he sees no reason to go off. Then a few months later he says he’s cured and doesn’t need them. Then a few weeks later he goes on a weird rampage somewhere. So far he’s not hurt anyone I know of, but I’ve not been married to him for a while now. I just couldn’t take it.
He can go to a gun show and get a gun at any time and come here and shoot me. It really bothers me. I don’t want him owning a gun, but I would be surprised if he didn’t have one by now.
And Elsie’s right. There is so much stigma. It’s not a crime, it’s an illness, and it deserves more help than it’s gotten over the years. I think its misunderstood because people are so different. I’ve dealt with depression for a number of years myself, and it took a while for the right combo of drugs to be put together so that I not only am not depressed, but I’m also not having anxiety attacks and can sleep.
Any, I’m all over the board myself right now. I can’t get my thoughts to make sense. I guess I just want to say life is terribly unfair.
I grew up around guns, am comfortable around them, and am very much in favor of more gun-control laws.
Being from Alabama, a huge gun show state, I would LOVE to see gun shows done away with. It’s baffling to me how they haven’t already been stopped. There was a special, maybe Dateline, where a young man went to a gun show and purchased a TRUNK FULL of rifles, shotgun, and handguns. Enough to arm a small army. No one said a word. No one questioned why he would need that many weapons. To me, that is NOT okay.
Like I said, I grew up around guns, and my dad took the time to show myself and my siblings how to use them. He always slept with a .38 on his nightstand, and as far back as I can remember I knew to NEVER touch any of his guns without his permission. Looking back, do I agree with that? No. But, he took the time to educated us, and we felt comfortable with them. We respected them. We knew how to use them. We never played with them, and there was never an accident. My point is education goes a long way. I’m positive that not even close to every gun owner is as educated as we were as kids. That’s dangerous. I see no reason to not have to take a certification course before buying a handgun.
Maybe even make safety courses optional, but everyone has to pass a written and then shooting safety test. Everyone who drives has to take a written and actual driving test to get a license because cars can be dangerous and people are killed every day in accidents. So, how would it be any different for people to have to prove they can safely handle a firearm before being allowed one?
Making it a bit harder to own a deadly weapon isn’t, IMO, infringing on rights because people are still able to own their weapons; new and stricter laws would just making owning guns safer. How is that a problem?
As someone who once stood in my house with a loaded Mossberg shotgun fully prepared to use it(turned out to be my bro messing with me), I fully understand the guns for protection argument. What I don’t understand is why people are against having to get educated on how to use their guns.
All of that being said, no, I do not currently own a gun(other than a .22 rifle with no bullets). I have a big, 93lb dog that would put herself between my son or me and danger in a heartbeat. That’s enough for me.
Sorry for the length, and if it’s not quite coherent. I’ve been typing this during the NYJ vs PIT game and trying to drown out the yelling at the tv.